S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:20 am

Bump! It's crunch time ladies and gentlemen. The 15th is tomorrow but I suspect most of the discussion will begin next week. So get to it and have a great weekend.

P.S. I may be around this weekend so feel free to start posting up anytime starting tomorrow.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:39 am

Alright, today's the half way point in our first monthly feature and it's finally time to start discussing the first half of Phantom.  If you are around this weekend join us!  

-------First Half Spoilers---------

I guess I'll start it off.  I had actually watched this years ago and it really stuck with me so I chose it for our first monthly feature.  I knew many of you had not seen it so it seemed like a good place to start off.  I'm excited to see what you guys think of it so far.  Obviously, this is a pretty serious and dark anime.  I think part of what drew me to it initially was was the more serious nature.  No comedic faces or strange little breaks in animation style.  I am usually drawn to more adult anime and this fit the bill completely.

I also found the characters interesting, especially Ein.  She is very likable despite being a mostly empty shell and I have the same desire to fix her as I feel Zwei does.  Zwei is a little more normal from the get go.  Despite having his memories wiped he is not quite as broken as Ein.  I assume this is largely due to his time spent being brainwashed.  Ein has been there longer and done some terrible things so she is pretty lost by the time the story starts.  Zwei, has only just started and even has Claudia interfering for her own purposes and as a result he even ends up getting his memories back by the end of this first arc.  At which point the motivation changes for Zwei and he is sort of on a mission to free Ein from her emotional prison.

This of course becomes a very uphill battle.  While there is a definite connection between the two, she is pretty far gone.  This culminates in in the episode 'Finale' where Ein actually takes a bullet for Scythe Master, effective getting them both killed in a rather shocking twist.  Both main characters killed by episode 10?  Nice.

But if you watched all the way to ep 13, you know that Zwei survives the ordeal but Ein's fate is still unknown.  While at the same time we are introduced to the newest character Cal, a young, street smart little girl bent on revenge.  

So...  Thoughts?  What did you guys think?  Did you like it?  Hate it? and what specifically did you guys like/hate?  Lets get this thing going...

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:05 pm

\\ First Half Spoilers Below \\

I really enjoyed this series. I watched it a mix of both sub and dubbed, both of which were very well done.

The relationship that tentatively forms between Ein and Zwei was really interesting. The little looks of -jealousy?- Ein had when Zwei was hanging out with other girls really made the characters real.

Ein jumping in front of the bullet was pretty unexpected for me. Zwei surviving the shooting was a bit more obvious.

Overall the first 10 eps felt like an intro to the characters. The second half should be more of an actual story/conclusion to Zwei's journey.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 COOP on Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:09 pm

Against what i was expecting i really enjoyed this series, or the first half so far at least. I gotta say, its probably one of the darker anime's i've ever seen.

I kept getting pretty pumped up, when Zwei would get that look in his eyes to survive!



I really like the overall story, i will say for someone who was just a traveling tourist, the initial fight (test) with Ein surprised me. i know i know, she was holding back, but he still did pretty freaking good! Which i guess is why Scythe Master chose him.
I agree that beginning has really introduced the characters, i expect great things to come in the second half.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:21 pm

Agreed Coop - it was a pretty great way to introduce the characters.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:26 pm

Yeah, I liked how the show isn't afraid to change up things either. By the end of the first half a great deal has changed in the dynamic of the group as a whole. Ein is dead and/or missing, Zwei (Now Reiji) has his memories back and works for Inferno of his own will (sort of). Scythe Master betrays Inferno and on the run and we get an all new character added to the main cast, a 12-year old little girl to be trained as an assassin. Aside from the initial few training episodes, it's a pretty wild ride through the first half.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:29 pm

Everyone else started into the second half? I'll be honest - I'm already finished with it.
I DEFINITELY recommend everyone finish this one out.

The ending sequence of events really drive the series up in quality.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Panzer on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:41 pm

Haven't had a chance. I'll try to make time for it this weekend but BF1 might consume my free time.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Xpert2010 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:47 am

Finally got around to watching the first 11 episodes over the weekend.  Wish I would have known that most of episode 11 was just a recap episode considering I had just watched the previous episodes in the same day.

The story really started to pick up as soon as the betrayal started.  Ein was set up to attack Claudia's forces just so Claudia can get rid of Scythe and keep Zwei.  At first I thought Claudia was a good person as it appeared she didn't want Zwei to become a mindless slave, or at least that's what she was telling him.  But then I realized that she was really just manipulating Zwei, giving him the illusion of choice.

Anime wasn't as dark as I thought it would be.  I think Akame ga Kill set the standard for dark anime for me. lol

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:56 am

Yeah, it's not overly dark but it's darker than most of the anime running around out there. The betrayal and twist keep coming in the second have as well. I am almost done with the series now and I had forgotten a lot of what happened and I have a few quips about the transition to the 3rd arc but I'll save that for the final discussion of the series.

I'm just starting the last arc now. The series runs strangely in 10 episode arcs and we even finally get a new OP around ep 20. I'm not sure I have ever seen a series break down this way before.

Be sure to wrap it up this week/weekend. We'll start the final discussion next Monday.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Xpert2010 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:28 pm

Went from episode 11 to 21 tonight.  6 episodes shouldn't be a problem before I visit family Wednesday after work.  This anime is quite the roller coaster.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:03 pm

Finished up and this anime is a roller coaster indeed.  Looking forward to hearing what you all thought.  I expect some fun conversations come Monday.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:18 pm

Especially about the ending. Must talk about ending...

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Panzer on Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:42 pm

Well I did it boys. Watched the last 13 episode all in one sitting.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:15 am

And so it begins!  Here we are at the end of the month and it's time to discuss.  Well?  What did you guys think?

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:46 pm

At this point, spoilers below




The last episode is probably the most interesting part of the entire series.
I really enjoyed the action throughout the second half.

For the last ep...

What exactly happened there? At face value, a hitman killed off Zwei - who killed herself thereafter.
Rewatching it and listening to the monologue that was happening, I think Zwei was shot and killed - and Ein committed suicide quite a bit later.

I enjoyed the series, and the ending -fits- but I saw no flaw with them just living their lives out together.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:17 pm

Atrum wrote:I enjoyed the series, and the ending -fits- but I saw no flaw with them just living their lives out together.

Indeed, and if you actually cut the last 1 mins out, it's a happy ending.  Eren and Reiji find Eren's "home" and have ended/escaped from the people trying to kill them at Inferno.  But given what we do see in the last minute, most of that is shattered.  Still, is Reiji dead?  I mean bro took what 3 shots point blank to the chest in the first arc and came back no problem.

There are also some interesting theories out there.  Most interesting is that Eren killed Reiji and then committed suicide by eating the purple flower which is poisonous so they would finally be truly free.

At the end of the day it's actually whatever you (the viewer) wants it to be.  Which I love.  I love it when shows let the viewer decide what happens.  Not everything needs to be spelled out and I feel the ending, even with how sad it might have felt, really elevates the whole show.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Xpert2010 on Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:46 pm

The last episode I was happy because Ein and Zwei made it out alive, but as soon as I saw that freakin\' cart coming toward Zwei, I freakin\' knew what was going to happen and prayed that it wouldn't.  And then it did...

I get the feeling that they planned on killing themselves as soon as they accomplished their mission.  They say that they can't live in the world that normal people can because of all the stuff they've done. So it's a world they cannot live in and the only thing that's keeping themselves going is each other. You never see how Zwei dies. The cart blocks the whole thing. I think he shoots himself whereas Ein maybe eats the petal from the flower (poisonous?) and dies as well. Another thing is Ein says "We don't have to go any further" once she sees the grass and sky from her memories and that "It's enough". At which point Zwei just walks off on his own without a word.  I feel that in this sense, that she's saying they finished what they set out to do, and planned to kill themselves while they were at their happiest.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:00 pm

Hum.  I like this ending Xpert.  The problem with the cart assassination is only 1 bullet is shot.  If there really was an assassin, don't you thing two shots would be fired?  (I mean that would want both of them dead) As it stands, the only explanation is one of them pulls the trigger.  Eren could have done it and killed herself afterwords but I like your explanation of Reiji killing himself instead.  Kind of poetic.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:12 pm

I read some interesting theories about a split timeline on the ending sequence.

I think the most interesting one is that Zwei died MUCH earlier than Ein, who went on living after he was assassinated.
The final sunset scene is her remembering the events of her life, the missing petal from the flower being symbolic of Zwei who had been killed after the series events.

She completed her journey, and being that the series title has 'requiem' in it - is remembering his life.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Xpert2010 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:24 pm

Another one that I was thinking was that the leader of Inferno sent an assassin after Zwei. Since Zwei and Ein were going around trying to track who Scythe Master was and where he had been, perhaps some informants let the leader of Inferno know that these kids were asking questions, which led to Zwei's death from being shot.

One thing that bugs me about this is that Zwei tends to have this sixth sense to sense danger, but perhaps his guard was let down in his brief moment of happiness?

I have a hard time believing the theories that Ein skills Zwei because she had plenty of opportunities to do that before, but says she cannot do it. She also seemed very happy to have found her homeland with Zwei's help. I don't think she would turn against him like that.

I still prefer my initial thought on the matter because the thought of having some random assassin take out Zwei at the end, after all that happened, really pissed me off. lol.

Should have just stopped watch 2-3 minutes before the show ended. -_-

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:41 pm

Indeed lol.  But I'm fine with the ending as is.  The only problem I have with the assassination theory is why they would only kill one of them?  One shot fired means only one was targeted.  I don't buy that.  If an assassin was sent them both would have been targeted IMO.

So we are back to murder/sucide.  Either Zwei kills himself or Ein kills him.  One of the two.  Now, is Zwei the type of person to kill himself or not?  I kind of don't think he is really.  But Ein is all sorts of broken.  Perhaps upon finally finding her home, her journey was complete.  She wanted her story to end on a happy note so she killed Zwei and then herself before anything bad could happen again.  

That is the theory I am leaning towards at the moment.  

BTW - How did you guys like it overall?

I admit it was not as good as I had remembered but I still enjoyed it.  I had really liked it back in the day but I think this was a case of rose-colored glasses.  Overall I found it a little sub-par, maybe 6/10.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Xpert2010 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:07 pm

The first part was kind of slow with the character development.

The second part was kind of heart wrenching because of Cal. Was thinking "Please don't let anything happen". When the apartment blew up, I had a feeling she wasn't there and when Zwei went off to finish things with Ein, I knew that Scythe Master would find Cal to turn her into an assassin.

Last part was okay. It was weird to go from the darkness in the first two seasons to a happy (somewhat) school life. But the darkness started settling back in again. Then protagonists walk away alive! yay happy times! Nope, they dead... #$%$^.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by Atrum on Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:09 pm

S7 Interseptor wrote:Indeed lol.  But I'm fine with the ending as is.  The only problem I have with the assassination theory is why they would only kill one of them?  One shot fired means only one was targeted.  I don't buy that.  If an assassin was sent them both would have been targeted IMO.

This is why dual timelines makes more sense. Zwei was killed during their travels, not literally assassinated by the cart driver at the end.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

Post by S7 Interseptor on Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:13 pm

Atrum wrote:
S7 Interseptor wrote:Indeed lol.  But I'm fine with the ending as is.  The only problem I have with the assassination theory is why they would only kill one of them?  One shot fired means only one was targeted.  I don't buy that.  If an assassin was sent them both would have been targeted IMO.

This is why dual timelines makes more sense. Zwei was killed during their travels, not literally assassinated by the cart driver at the end.

Perhaps but there was literally no hint that that could have happened.  Nothing in editing or how the story was told up to that point.  To me, that theory is nothing but fans trying to find a happy-ish ending.  A lot of grabbing at straws.

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Re: S7 Anime Club Monthly Feature - October 2016

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