Sooo, new car time...

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Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Epic on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Well, I sold the Lexus today. I'll certainly miss her but it was time for something a little more practical and cheaper to run. I'm probably looking to buy new and have it last a few years until my salary will facilitate something a little more exotic...perhaps a Skyline or an AMG Merc.

I've been looking around for a while and have decided I want a car with the VW 1.4 TFSI engine. It's a step down in engine size but it has a supercharger and a turbo, so acceleration and torque are great throughout the rev range and fuel economy is great, without compromising fun.

Now, one thing that I found myself gravitating towards was the DSG gearbox. It is an automatic...BUT it has a manual mode, so I can change gear with the stick (forwards/back) or with the flappy paddle steering wheel controls. What's more is that is actually faster and more consistent than the equivalent 6-speed gearbox. So, around town or on long motorway journeys I can just kick it into drive, be lazy and save money. I've made my feelings about full-auto's abundantly clear and they stand, but for me, this is the future of gear changing.

I've tried the DSG on a VW Golf and it is great, perfect shifts every time and it's still just as fun.

I have exhaustedly looked at many other cars that didn't have either of these but I couldn't find any that were a more complete package than these two -

The SEAT Ibiza Cupra and the Audi A1.

Having priced both up with the options I'd have (pretty extensive...) the Audi would be about $3500 more but I think the build quality is probably superior to the SEAT...and it has a few extra horsies too.

Opinions...?

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:55 pm

S7 Epic wrote:Now, one thing that I found myself gravitating towards was the DSG gearbox. It is an automatic...BUT it has a manual mode, so I can change gear with the stick (forwards/back) or with the flappy paddle steering wheel controls. What's more is that is actually faster and more consistent than the equivalent 6-speed gearbox.

:puke:
Rolling Eyes No Save the manuals!!

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Epic on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:17 pm

S7 K1ll3rKlown wrote:
S7 Epic wrote:Now, one thing that I found myself gravitating towards was the DSG gearbox. It is an automatic...BUT it has a manual mode, so I can change gear with the stick (forwards/back) or with the flappy paddle steering wheel controls. What's more is that is actually faster and more consistent than the equivalent 6-speed gearbox.

:puke:
Rolling Eyes No Save the manuals!!

Improve the manuals!!! Seriously, DSG isn't your run of the mill Chevvy automatic. It's VW and it's fantastic. For me the best gear change is 2nd to 3rd, so being able to upshift forwards each and every time is great. What more is that the paddles on the wheel are great for shifting around corners. I can't wait to try it out on a track.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by Atrum on Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:54 pm

Ride a bicycle! That's some real gear changing. None of this mechanical BS. Bicycle > manual

On a serious note I'm a big audi fan. Not from their racing, or their name, but from my time driving them. Upkeep can be a bit expensive but it's worth it.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:17 pm

You're trying to justify it Epic, just like everyone else. It's crap...and anytime you need to justify it that demonstrates your knowledge that it's crap, but you're merely trying to get everyone to go along. Not that MY opinion counts, but you know the minute anyone rides they will say the same...and you've already created a canned response of justification. NOPE!

The car itself is freakin' NICE! but the Auto (paddle shift) Gearbox = Junk!
"It's automatic BUT has manual mode"-- that in itself is an oxymoron. If you want to shift in an automatic, get a manual. If you want an auto, get an auto and be done with it.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:39 pm

Don't mind Klown Epic, he's very opinionated when it comes to cars, especially if people want to buy something other than a manual Mustang. Most of the time I tend to gloss over his car comments because they all seem to be the same canned responses, but I'm probably the only one that that thinks that.

I agree about the trans you're talking about because you can have the control of a manual when you want it but you can flip to auto when you're stuck in stop and go city traffic. Good luck on the search for your new car.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:26 pm

S7 SockPuppet wrote:I agree about the trans you're talking about because you can have the control of a manual when you want it but you can flip to auto when you're stuck in stop and go city traffic. Good luck on the search for your new car.

LOL, the word you seek is "honesty". Many people don't like hearing honesty, but his post said he wanted opinions. I admitted I like the car itself, but the gearbox is trash in my opinion. BTW, I am in stop and go traffic everyday of my life and I don't want to "flip" to an auto. There was a time when men could control their vehicles. Now they parallel park for you, let you see what's behind you without turning your head with console rearview monitors, and even say they have a engine that doesn't shift (Nissan Leaf?). In any case, some of us are what's known as "gearheads" and to say there's a car that does everything for you to me is like not driving at all. At one time people drove because it was enjoyable, now they want the car to do it all while they text and surf the net while listening to XM radio in an auto they can "flip" and shift. But only when the girls are watching, so they can pretend to be driving a manual vehicle. PUKE!

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:54 am

Why does everything turn into a flame war with cars...

Being old and a "gearhead" doesn't mean you need to crap on everything that is new(ish)/different... I think that EVERYONE gets you have a strong opinion on stuff like this, but come on... You would think someone like you could come up with a more convincing, well thought out argument for or against something rather than being a joke (like your Forza night appearances)...

blah blah blah "save the manuals" blah blah blah "Mustangs" blah blah blah... WE GET IT...

NOTE TO SELF: If anything car related is in a thread and Klown has posted in said thread... Disregard and go back to work, instead of reading.






Now Epic, I have messed around with a couple of the paddle automatics (Hyundai Sonata and Genesis) and I think they're fun for messing around with, especially on the country roads around were I live. I do certainly enjoy the actual Automatic transmission in traffic. I like the feel of Hyundai's version, so I can only assume that someone like Audi could handle it as well. I think they are the best of both worlds, paddles for fun/control & automatic when you have more important things to do (or are just lazy).

My father, who has raced for 30 years and normally driven a manual, actually bought a Hyundai Genesis (a paddle automatic) and he loves that car... but seeing how "gearheads" have been spoken for you can disregard that Rolling Eyes

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by Atrum on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:13 am

Save the bicycle epic!

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Panzer on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:16 am

This right here good sir

http://www.amazon.com/BRAND-SCOOTER-Matching-Trunk~BLUE~-MPBD50QT-3-BLUE/dp/B003ZWPGUE

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:28 am

AtrumX wrote:Save the bicycle epic!

its a sign Epic bikes at: http://www.epicbikeandsport.com/

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 wonky on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:59 am

a1 all the way

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Epic on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:17 am

Well, I broke down and bought one...



Seriously though, Klown, I'm not trying to justify the DSG, I don't need to, it does that itself. I'm trying to persuade you that it's at least worth a look, especially for a petrol head. That said, I'd just class you as a purist.

I, myself, love manual but why is a traditional manual better than DSG? Do you think a 6-speed is the pinnacle of transmissions?


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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:12 am

S7 Wiggles78 wrote:blah blah blah "save the manuals" blah blah blah "Mustangs" blah blah blah... WE GET IT...

NOTE TO SELF: If anything car related is in a thread and Klown has posted in said thread... Disregard and go back to work, instead of reading.

My thoughts exactly

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Uncle Charles on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:59 am

Get the Audi....

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:04 am

If you read through all the other nonsense posted here and go back to Epic's last post you'll see that HE at least understands what I wrote. Some read a few lines of what I say, make a decision that I'm being critical because it involves cars and begin to write bloated nonsense to hear themselves speak ....YAWN!! Sleep . Glad that you were able to swim through the bullsh*t posts here Epic (other than Atrum) and understand that I wasn't being critical and infact said I like the car-- but gave exactly what you requested; which was an opinion on the gears. I will also give the gearbox a second look and attempt to understand how one would be advantageous.

Happy to see the educational system overseas isn't completely flawed as it appears to be on this side of the pond. My hope for humanity continues.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Interseptor on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:01 am

The following is a general statement about auto/manuals and does not entirely apply to this conversation: I actually agree with Klown on this, for the most part. In general, I feel that a Manual Gearbox is where it's at. They are usually faster and offer better control (not always but usually) and I generally HATE the auto/manual gearbox. The just feel fake. They are slow to respond and the gearing is usually not quite right. This is because they usually are fake. The take an automatic transmission and artificially put in gears. Normal automatics, in automatic mode have about 4/5 gears. When you switch to "manual" mode and all of a sudden you have 6? It's all fake BS going on in the computer and you are actually slowing down the cars natural performance. They only thing they are really good for is holding your RPM's in a corner and downshifting for engine breaking. Actually acceleration is normally slower in manual mode.

This is the case in the car that I currently drive. I drive a 2008 Mitsubishi Lance GTS with an automatic CVT transmission (it never shifts in Automatic mode, just smooth acceleration all the way). It also has a manual mode complete with flappy paddles but it is complete sh1t. Fortunately I bought it because I wanted an automatic at the time so I don't have to use the sh1tty "manual" setting. I leave it in automatic almost all the time and I like my car very much. It's not a race car and I did not buy it to race. I bought it for long commutes and good gas mileage (32+ hwy). It fills it's purpose well and it is one of my favorite cars I have ever owned.

Actually relevant statement to the conversation: All that out of the way. The above statement is not always correct. Many advancements have been made and some cars now have a true double clutch type system build into the automatic/manual versions. The exact same model car that I drive is available as an EVO X. The EVO X is available in two flavors. A true manual 6-speed trans and an automatic/manual with flappy paddles (just like my car). The difference is that this car is the real deal with a full double clutch system like they use in Ferrari's. No BS here and the auto/manual flappy paddle version is faster around the track. This is true with the new Audi S5 as well. Times are changing and what used to be true is no longer the case. Some cars still have sh1tty fake auto/manual BS but some have much better tech then you might be used to.

All that said. I still prefer a manual transmission. I have enjoyed my automatic Lancer but my next car will almost assuredly be a manual. I just like the feel of driving a manual and I miss it every day.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Thank you Interseptor for a very well thought out and perfectly stated response.

The torque converter (attached to the automatic transmissions) is basically like two "fans"... one fan attached to the motor sprays fluid at another fan that is attached to the transmission. The car is driven by SPRAYING FLUID (for all practical purposes). Some of the power is lost because it's basically like a concept of driving a boat in water... a propeller drives it... and some of the energy is lost in process... since the two "fans" (using this term to illustrate to those who don't know how this works) don't touch each other. Think of this kind of like air. If you take one floor fan, and put it next to another floor fan... when you turn one of the fans on, the other one spins simply because of the force of air from the first fan. But, it never spins quite as fast as the one that has the power turned on. There's always loss in the process of spraying air between one fan and another. Same concept in an automatic transmission with a torque converter... power loss in the process.

Spare me discussions about higher stall speed torque converters, etc., which allow the engines to be at a more peak power output when accelerating the car, etc. Yes, I know all of this. This note was in response to some of the folks I've seen here that don't seem to understand transmission 101... this is not a transmission 201 class.

A clutch is different, and basically consists of friction plates. Press the clutch pedal, the plates separate. Let the clutch out 1/2 way, the plates touch each other (but slip) allowing some power to go to the transmission (and eventually to the rear wheels). Let the clutch out all the way, and the plates push so hard up against each other that there's zero slipping, and 100% of the power goes through the clutch to the transmission and wheels. There is no power loss going through a clutch (once the pedal is fully released).

So, the paddle shifters really do little more than allow you to select gears with a little more affirmative nature than the old floor selectors. Of course, they also implemented (at the same time as adding paddle shifters) some algorithms that allow the shifting to be cleaner, better syncronized, etc.... but, that "could have" been implemented with a floor shifter instead of the paddles, if they wanted. But, I still say, if you want to control what gear you're in... if you think you can do it better than the computer... or if you just don't want it downshifting or upshifting just as you're approaching a turn (how would a computer know?), and you want that "manual" control of a paddle shifter... I still say if you want that much control, buy the darn manual and forget the silly paddles.

In closing, the fun factor of a manual is through the roof, and you virtually gain nothing with the paddles but a conversation piece!!

My opinion.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Epic on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:53 pm

The DSG doesn't use a torque converter.


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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Interseptor on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:06 pm

Good video Epic. I have not driven one yet but the DSG transmission is clearly one of the better more advanced systems I was talking about. I am personally very picky when it comes to auto/manuals so I would have to drive one to give a real opinion but it seems legit to me. Double clutch and all.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:19 pm

Same here. As noted earlier, I will certainly give it a second look and see what advantages this would possibly have over the manual. I'll find a dealer in the area with these vehicles in stock and test drive this weekend. Nothing I tell you is just hot-air. Everything is from an experience standpoint.

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Uncle Charles on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:05 pm

S7 K1ll3rKlown wrote: Nothing I tell you is just hot-air. Everything is from an experience standpoint.
That's why I have not commented on the actual mechanics discussion....'cause I don't know sh1t! But I can still play harmonica better than you...LOL

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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 mrmiller on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Or you could just get an invisible car, and no one would care about the shifting-



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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 Epic on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:16 pm

They're pretty impressive in person, obviously, I have no hope that you'll prefer it, lol, but I think it should at least convince you that it's smarter than your average bear/auto.


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Re: Sooo, new car time...

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:57 pm

@Miller - invisible? I'd prefer the Audi from iRobot instead. At least I can read the Washington Post on my way to work.

@UC - Yeah, you got me with the harmonica, at least until Rosetta Stone decides to make an instructional CD for that instead of French.

@Epic - Yeah, I'm pretty sure that nothing will ever be better than a manual, but I'm never too stubborn to give it a try. If nothing else I'll see if true speed shifting can be accomplished on the d@mn thing..LOL

@Wiggle Wobble - Racing for 30 years and now saying an automatic paddle shifting Hyundai Genesis is the sh1t huh? HAHA!! GTFO! All I can say to that is garbage in/garbage out. Keep your mouth shut sir, you're attracting flies.


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Re: Sooo, new car time...

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