S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:42 pm

Final Results
113 - Wiggles (1 Win, 6 Podiums)
112 - Interseptor (5 Wins, 5 Podiums)
98 - Epic (1 Win, 3 Podiums)
94 - Apex (3 Podiums)
84 - Coolhand (1 Podium)
82 - Kenny (2 Podiums)
82 - Atrum
81 - Pooty Poo (1 Podium)
66 - RacecarDriver23
66 - Benji
64 - Riff Raff
52 - OC

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Nice turnout there. I bet it was pretty crowded on some of those tiny tracks with 12 cars. I look forward to the E-class races in 2 weeks.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 OC on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:58 am

So what is the new scoring system
20
17
15
14
13
12
11
10.....down to 2 with a full room of 18?

How are we deciding to give points to those who can't connect, need to leave...?

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by Atrum on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:11 am

I'll be posting up a couple clips from some of the replays I saved including one of the biggest wrecks of the night, and an epic 3 way finish that came down to the line.

Definitely going to be sure to center my forza time around the class we're doing in the next tournament from now on.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Interseptor on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:31 am

S7 OC wrote:So what is the new scoring system
20
17
15
14
13
12
11
10.....down to 2 with a full room of 18?

How are we deciding to give points to those who can't connect, need to leave...?

Yes. That is the current scoring system. We had to make a point system that could accommodate up to 16 people and that is what we came up with. Seemed to work pretty well last night so I think we will continue with this going forward. Now, as for the question about points when someone leaves or disconnects? I don't know. I think you have to handle each case differently based off of the circumstances. In my case, I was there (2 hours early) and had a temporary internet outtage. I got back online as quickly as I could but unfortunately missed 2 races. This was no fault of my own and I earnestly tried to be there. I think giving me last place points for the races I missed was the right thing to do (and BTW, it would not have effected out overall outcome of the race for me and I still think it was the right thing to do). However, if someone just shows up late to a Tourney, that is a different story. Especially if there was no attempt to make it on time. Case by case. If we think someone deserves last place points because something happened and they miss a race or two I don't see why it would be a problem to grant them "participation points".

Also, Congratz to Wiggles! Winner of the F-Class Tourney, our first Champion of Forza 4.

And, Thanks to everyone who showed up to race. It was a blast!!! Seriously the most fun I have had in a long time. Surprisingly few wrecks too, especially considering we had up to 12 guys there. I think that was the cleanest race we have ever had. Nice job guys.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 OC on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:49 am

ok that sounds reasonable just asking for the sake of trying to clear up any future issues that may come up.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:40 pm

The Winning car from last night....


Win ALL the races!

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 K1ll3rKlown on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:43 pm

Not going to ask why the paint job gives the impression it just went through a gallon of splooge Rolling Eyes

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:58 pm

S7 K1ll3rKlown wrote:Not going to ask why the paint job gives the impression it just went through a gallon of splooge Rolling Eyes

I don't think there's any question about that, it did.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:32 pm

S7 Interseptor wrote:
S7 OC wrote:So what is the new scoring system
20
17
15
14
13
12
11
10.....down to 2 with a full room of 18?

How are we deciding to give points to those who can't connect, need to leave...?

Yes. That is the current scoring system. We had to make a point system that could accommodate up to 16 people and that is what we came up with. Seemed to work pretty well last night so I think we will continue with this going forward. Now, as for the question about points when someone leaves or disconnects? I don't know. I think you have to handle each case differently based off of the circumstances. In my case, I was there (2 hours early) and had a temporary internet outtage. I got back online as quickly as I could but unfortunately missed 2 races. This was no fault of my own and I earnestly tried to be there. I think giving me last place points for the races I missed was the right thing to do (and BTW, it would not have effected out overall outcome of the race for me and I still think it was the right thing to do). However, if someone just shows up late to a Tourney, that is a different story. Especially if there was no attempt to make it on time. Case by case. If we think someone deserves last place points because something happened and they miss a race or two I don't see why it would be a problem to grant them "participation points".

Also, Congratz to Wiggles! Winner of the F-Class Tourney, our first Champion of Forza 4.

And, Thanks to everyone who showed up to race. It was a blast!!! Seriously the most fun I have had in a long time. Surprisingly few wrecks too, especially considering we had up to 12 guys there. I think that was the cleanest race we have ever had. Nice job guys.

My only suggestion about that is perhaps the full 6 points is overkill. Personally, I would not score all positions.

Formula one uses this scoring system (top 10) -

25
18
15
12
10
8
6
4
2
1

If somebody goes missing for two races, I think 6 points is massive overkill. We have a system based on having 16 players, fair enough this is a number we might hit - it doesn't mean we need to score for it though IMO.

Since we've started this way, I'm ok with finishing the season under the current system but I think for next season, the one above would be much better - If you wanted, you could change the end to - 4, 3, 2 and then give everyone outside the top 10 a point for participation.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by Atrum on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:38 pm

I do like the idea of having top 3 or 5 rewarded more than 1 point above the next spot. As it is now getting 1st is the only big leap that can help you.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:46 pm

AtrumX wrote:I do like the idea of having top 3 or 5 rewarded more than 1 point above the next spot. As it is now getting 1st is the only big leap that can help you.

Exactly, My finishes last night were 1st, 4th, 2nd, 8th, 11th, 4th, 3rd. The 7 points for that 11th were probably what put me above Apex. That said, I'm glad it did, you saw that maple valley wreck - before that I was probably on the hunt for a podium for sure. Would've sucked if that had cost me 3rd.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by Atrum on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:52 pm

Speaking of which I'll have a clip of that up tonight.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:55 am

I gotta agree with you guys i think a podium is important and 3rdx should have some sort of a boost over 4th


and i do like the idea of everyone from 11th on back getting only 1 point, that way if you get wrecked early you don't need to limp around trying for that extra point between 13th and 14th etc

Or 2 Points from 11th on back.. so we can give that 1 point for attempted participation

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:01 am

So really what it comes down to is OC and I should decide how many points we'd like to fight over and that should get everything squared.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Wiggles1778 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:09 am

25 - 1st
21 - 2nd
17 - 3rd
13 - 4th
11 - 5th
9 - 6th
8 - 7th
7 - 8th
6 - 9th
5 - 10th
3 - 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th
1 - Attempted to play

With this you basically get a boost in points for:
Actively playing
a Top 10 finish
a Top 5 finish
a Top 3 finish

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by Atrum on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:41 am

I'd prefer having each spot getting a different amount of points. I do t know how many times races have still been crazy intense between people racing to get that 1 extra point over finishing last. Maybe like this:

1 - 30
2 - 26
3 - 22
4 - 19
5 - 16
6 - 14
7 - 12
8 - 10
9 - 8
10 - 7
11 - 6
12 - 5
13 - 4
14 - 3
15 - 2
16 - 1

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:52 pm

1st - 25
2nd - 21
3rd - 18
4th - 15
5th - 12
6th - 10
7th - 8
8th - 6
9th - 4
10th - 2
11th+ - 1

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by Atrum on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:37 pm

S7 Wiggles78 wrote:25 - 1st
21 - 2nd
17 - 3rd
13 - 4th
11 - 5th
9 - 6th
8 - 7th
7 - 8th
6 - 9th
5 - 10th
3 - 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th
1 - Attempted to play

S7 Epic wrote:1st - 25
2nd - 21
3rd - 18
4th - 15
5th - 12
6th - 10
7th - 8
8th - 6
9th - 4
10th - 2
11th+ - 1

My only thought is how do the guys that finish 11 or lower consistently feel about that type of scoring system?
I wouldn't mind as a swing between middle to almost podium but to use him as an example: OC tends to finish around the bottom half fairly often. Let's say that Interseptor is always battling OC for last. Having the bottom x amount of places tie in points takes away the competition and intensity for the lower placing guys.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:02 pm

I wouldn't say so, they have to compete for points finishes. If they're behind a lot, that makes sneaking a 6th or 7th every now and then a lot more important.

Maybe from 7th downwards its could go 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1..... but I don't see it as necessary.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by racecardriver23 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:43 pm

I know I've only been to one race, but I have raced for points for the last 20 years. My feeling on this is it would really hurt the gameplay in the long run. I used to hate it sometimes, but you get in a wreck and you have to gut it out to pick up as many points as you can. Let's say someone who is up front in points get's in an accident halfway through the race and winds up in the back, he knows he can't get past more than 5 cars because the gap is to big so he just lays back and waits on the next race. Some of the best racing and what separates the best is going through hard times picking up as many points as possible. Also you don't want to lose competitors, I can tell everyone around here would like to do as good as they can and have fun in the process, but if you have 5 guys running in the back pretty regular it'd suck to know you finished 16th instead of 11th because someone got lucky and broke the top ten one time more than you. I think that might give some people less to shoot for and they might lose interest through the season if they have know one to try and beat, it's always fun battling for something even if it's last.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:29 pm

I don't think we had anyone finish in a position less than 10th for all seven races - perhaps OC? Either way, that's how motorsport goes and since this is a season-long even, we have to think about the competition further down the line, when there's likely to only be 8/9 people racing, rather than 14/15.

Without a points system like the ones suggested, the difference in places just isn't enough to reward drivers for finishing well. It isn't a system that rewards consistency, it is a system that rewards pulling a 1st/2nd out of the bag, which, for some us will be almost impossible to achieve.

I fail to see how it gives anyone anything less to aim for. Rather the opposite. If there are 2-3 guys that do happen to be finding themselves at the back of the pack, then the onus would be on them to push themselves a bit further to get that top 10 finish. Whether that top 10 finish is achieved through others crashing out is irrelevant as front runners are just as likely to benefit from that as those at the back are.

As far as people sitting back if they know they can't make the points, I don't think it does. If they believe they've already achieved the maximum amount of points, then I'm sure they'd have more fun going hell-for-leather for the remainder of the race than they would being a Sunday driver. People are ALWAYS going to race for position and for pride. Especially when there is nothing to lose. It's not like their engine or tyre durability carries over to the next races.

Also, I think it will help prevent unfairness in matches with a DNF or DNS. Both Zak and Riff Raff(?) got 12 free points last time, for two races they didn't attend. I know it didn't affect Zak's placing and I'm not sure about Riff's but it doesn't make sense having the points distributed in the way they are. Things that is what will give some of the slower racers the chance to finish higher but it's very hard to claw back a points differential when you're getting 7 points for finishing last and somebody who isn't even in the race gets 6. That is what players will find demotivating.

The system served us well in Forza 3 with our lower numbers but it is time for change.



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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by racecardriver23 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:11 pm

Don't get me wrong I agree with you on the fact the points need adjusting, it's only fair to award top 5 finishers with bonus points, I wasn't arguing with that. I was just in more agreement with something like Atrum suggested or your second suggestion, having a point per position for the bottom half, at least to 14th, instead of the same from 11th to 16th, that way when you do have a full room everyone has something to race for. Then just set the attempted participation points to one regardless of the number of cars. I'm happy either way though since I'm just there for fun and won't be much of a factor in the long run, just thought I'd offer my opinion.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by S7 Epic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:39 pm

I suppose my second suggestion would be a good middle ground. I suppose the best way to support this will just be to vote.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

Post by DeadSockPuppet on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:48 am

As someone who pretty much fights OC to not be last, what is my motivation to race if I place ahead of him and we both get 1 point since we're racing for like 11th or worse place? There's no reason for me to put in time and energy to field a car and try as hard as I can not be able to break the top ten so I get the same number of points per race as someone that just showed up race night and races stock cars.

Most likely I'll continue to race no matter what the point system is, and I think OC probably feels the same, but I think we'd both like to be rewarded with additional points for beating each other. Just because we're not battling for first doesn't mean there isn't a heated race going on at the back of the pack. Let's not punish the kids in the back just because they don't compete for first.

Also, not that I say this would happen, but what's to keep people from racing a little too aggressive for their abilities in an attempt to get into that better scoring top ten? I don't think people would try to intentionally wreck people but I might be more aggressive in turns and try to make moves I shouldn't try because I'm trying to scratch out a 10th place finish.

All in all I think a system that punishes the 11+ place finishers will end up causing problems for everyone. This is just the opinion of someone that will almost always be fighting for the spots that are 11th or worse.

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Re: S7R Forza 4 F-Class Tourney - Season 1

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